Liv-ex Fine Wine Market Blog

The Wine Cellar Insider 访问 Liv-ex 董事James Miles

Liv-ex 董事 James Miles在 The Wine Cellar Insider与Jeff Leve谈论 Liv-ex及优质葡萄酒市场。  

 

创立Liv-ex的灵感源自哪里？

当我们是股票经纪人時，股票和葡萄酒之间的相似性給我们留下了深刻印象。我们以传统的方式购买和出售了少量的优质葡萄酒，自此我們對葡萄酒市场便着了迷。我们的观察是，股票和葡萄酒市场同是不透明和低效率的。我们预感到互联网有可能會把优质葡萄酒的交易方式发生革命性的改变。

 

你倆當時有否曾参与任何葡萄酒贸易？或主要憑你們在买卖股票的经验？
我们當時的资格十分有限。我们對葡萄酒認識甚少，對葡萄酒市场了解更少。但我们知道市场是如何運作的。Justin是股票推销员，而我是股票分析师。如果我们當初了解得更多, 可能我们便從不會尝试。行外的身份也帮助我们建立早期的独立性，这是至关重要的。

 

你們下一个步是如何把Liv-ex整合出來？
我们的想法是建立一个可供葡萄酒商人進行交易的平台; 類似证券交易所的商业模式。大多数人认为，互联网的出現會切断中间人的机会，但我们的想法是，交易所可與企业之间一起互動。

 

當触发了這个意念，接著你們做了些什么？
我们看到了机会，但不是在消除不必要的中间商，而是在成本方面。通过互联网几乎免费的信息分发， 成本大大減低，互联网使我们的意念在市场上打开了一个发展的机会，我们的愿景是使葡萄酒交易更加透明，高效和安全。

 

你們對透明度问题十分重視。透明度是比价格更重要吗？
它们是相互关聯的。透明度的价格給予让购買者信心。

 

你的私人酒窖會购买什么葡萄酒？
我倾向于只买喝的，虽然我也有小拉菲(Carruades)和杜哈-米龙(Duhart Milon), 但類似的酒對我來說已太贵了。我一般只購买好年份較便宜的葡萄酒品牌。我有很多次級的2009s大瓶裝。我也有零星的Fourrier, Chateauneuf du Pape 的Clos des Papes 及Boillot。我不倾向于任何要支付超过500英镑的酒。我的酒窖主要集中在第二和第三級的波尔多，像靓茨伯(Lynch Bages), 巴顿(Leoville Barton) 和宝得根(Pontet Canet)。

 

优质葡萄酒市场未來的走向會如何？

基本主题是不变的和积极的。越来越多人會饮用葡萄酒及富人越来越富，尤其是在新兴市场。特别是在中国受到追捧像拉菲的葡萄酒; 价格过高，速度太快，价格更正是艰苦的。但這是周期性的，而不是结构性的。优质葡萄酒的基本需求和兴趣并没有消失。

你们为什么2004年要始创Liv-ex 100？
我们发布月度市场报告給我们Cellar Watch (收藏家酒窖管理工具)的用户。我们第一次这样做是为了好玩，在我们的报告中提出了這個想法; 便引起了傳媒的想象。彭博及路透社询问可否在其平台上列出我们的指數！自此，指數100已经成为业界的指標，这是一个巨大的成功！

 

目前交易所有多少成员？
我们有420個酒商遍佈35个国家！

 

哪些国家是最活跃的？
英国和法国。最大的酒商十之八九仍是位於伦敦和波尔多; 最大的欧洲葡萄酒商在中国也是最大的。

 

消费者不是通過拍卖购买葡萄酒比經传统的酒商更好吗？
绝对不是！除現時的美国和亚洲之外，其它地區拍卖都是无关紧要的。与酒商交易是更便宜更方便。这就是酒商市场比拍卖市场大10倍的原因。

 

假冒名酒的问题有多普遍？
值得庆幸的是酒庄現开始更认真对待此问题。如证明标签技术是一很大的突破！對我们目前这不是一个大问题，因我们的业务大部分是年轻葡萄酒，很容易追踪到其生产者。但保持警觉對我们來說是十分重要的。

 

你對今天及在可见未来的中国葡萄酒市场有什么看法？
这是一个令人兴奋新的葡萄酒交易市场。現在中国出現一些重新进货的早期迹象，这是积极的, 去年并没有发生。我们预计市場將逐步复苏，且随着市場的成熟而变得更精通和更有洞察力。但對葡萄酒的兴趣始終是真实及持久的。

 

纯粹为投资所购买的葡萄酒，过度航运明显是一笔很大的开支。你有什么计划以减少交易後所需的貨運?
这是一个很大的问题！存货需要移动是基於法律上，只有在自己的仓库帐户內实体的葡萄酒才能证明其所有权。

 

Liv-ex 會如改變它？
我们的想法是建立和管理一个中央存管机构，基本上是一个所有权的数据库， 當中都是经过认证的仓储网络的业主，并执行相同的标准的贮存条件，验证过程等。在这种情况下，所有权的转让會轉變成一个简单的记帐或数据库传输。实际货物將不需要移动，除非有实物交收的必要。

 

从表面上看，對不打算喝酒的投资者，不需支付运费和维护出处, 似乎是對有关各方都是一个好主意。
如果今天你要建立一个优质葡萄酒的供应链，你就不会建立現行的系統。目前的系统中有太多的运动。绝大部分市場交易的葡萄酒都是太年轻不宜現喝的。而90％Liv-ex的贸易都是在过去的10個年份年轻的葡萄酒。因此，我们的业务大部分是存储账户之间的交易，有時過程中的貨運环游了半个世界。

 

你對Liv-ex的未来有什么计划？
我们将继续着迷於要使葡萄酒贸易变得更高效，透明和安全; 造福世界各地的葡萄酒爱好者。

 

葡萄酒投资未来将何去何从？

葡萄酒和葡萄酒投机活动自始至今一直是意外之合，只要有葡萄酒，就会有投机行为。两者都會有一远大的未来。

The Wine Cellar Insider interviews James Miles

Liv-ex Director James Miles discusses Liv-ex and the fine wine market with Jeff Leve from The Wine Cellar Insider. You can read the interview in full here.

For people not familiar with Liv-ex, what is your core business?

Liv-ex is an acronym for the London International Vintners Exchange. I guess everything you need to know is in the name. People often find it hard to get their head around what an exchange does.

What is the business model for Liv-ex?

Our business is about information. Our unique selling point is our price data. Merchants come to us to find out the current transaction price, where their competitors are actually trading. They can’t get this from anywhere else. They also come for liquidity.

Where does Liv-ex earn its income from?

65% of our income comes from transactions, 30% from data and subscriptions and the balance from storage, settlement and transport.

What was the inspiration behind starting Liv-ex?

At the time we were stockbrokers. We were struck by the similarities between stocks and wine. We had bought and sold a small amount of fine wine in the traditional way and became fascinated by the market. Our observation was that it was both opaque and inefficient. We had a hunch the Internet had the potential to change this and revolutionize the way fine wine was traded.

Were either of you involved at all in the wine trade? Or was your primary experience in trading stocks?

We weren’t qualified for much. We knew little about wine and even less about the market. But we understood how markets worked. Justin was an equity salesman. I was an equity analyst. If we had been better informed, we would never have attempted it. Not being from the trade also helped us to establish our independence early on, which was vital.

What was your next step in putting together Liv-ex?

Our idea was to build a wine exchange for merchants along stock exchange lines.  Most people felt the Internet provided the opportunity to cut out the middle man. Our thinking was that an exchange would work along Business to Business lines.

With that spark of an idea, what did you do?

We saw the opportunity, not in terms of removing unnecessary middlemen, but in terms of cost. By driving down the cost of distributing information to almost nothing, the Internet opened a gap in the market for our ideas. Our vision was to make trading wine more transparent, efficient and safe.

You make a big issue of transparency. Is transparency more important than price?

They are related. Transparency gives buyers confidence in the price.

Is wine a personal passion for you?

We love wine. But we were drawn to the trade by the business idea rather than a passion for the product. This makes us pretty stupid I know!

What wines do you purchase for your own your personal cellar?

I tend to only buy to drink, although there is stuff in my cellar like Carruades and Duhart Milon, which has got too expensive for me. I tend to only buy less expensive wines in the great vintages. I have a lot of lesser 2009s in magnum. I also have a smattering of Fourrier, Chateauneuf du Pape from Clos des Papes and Boillot. I don’t tend to pay more than £500 per case for anything.  My cellar is heavily concentrated in second and third tier Bordeaux like Lynch Bages, Leoville Barton and Pontet Canet.

What is your guess as to the value of fine wine traded today on an annual basis?

In 2011 it was about £4bn, but 2012 was down 30-40%.

How much of that is Bordeaux wine?

In 2011 94% of Liv-ex trade was Bordeaux wine. In 2012 it was 85%.

How much of that is devoted to the First Growths?

Currently about 30%, by value. But that is lower than normal.

Do you think the current system of selling Bordeaux wine En Primeur will continue in its present form?

Yes. It is a brilliant system for the producers. I don’t see the structure changing in my lifetime. However, it could be more transparent, efficient and safe than it is currently.

Where is the fine wine market headed these days?

The underlying themes are unchanged and positive. More people are drinking wine and the rich are getting richer, particularly in emerging markets. Prices got way ahead of themselves, particularly those wines that were sought after in China, like Lafite Rothschild. The correction has been tough. But it is cyclical and not structural. The underlying demand and interest in fine wine hasn’t gone away.

How have things changed for you at Liv-ex, since you first got started?

The Internet has made the market much more transparent and information travels much faster. This has made the market more accessible and opened a multitude of new opportunities making it much larger.

Why did you create the initial Liv-ex 100 in 2004?

We publish a monthly market report for subscribers to our Cellar Watch, which is a cellar management tool for collectors. We first did it for fun to demonstrate a point in one of our reports. It caught the imagination of the press. Bloomberg and Reuters called asking if they could list our index on their platform! Since then the 100 has become the benchmark for the industry which was a huge coup!

How much has the 100 Index changed since its inception?

The 100 index is weighted by multiplying price by production and scarcity. We depreciate supply as the wine ages, to reflect the fact that wine gets scarcer as it gets older. So there is a natural bias to young wines with high production and big prices. This means the index is heavily weighted towards recent vintages of the First Growths. This reflects the reality in the market. Lafite Rothschild from Pauillac makes 25,000 cases at £5-10,000 per case. Clearly it is always going to be more important than a top Rhone, Burgundy or a garage wine in California, where prices are high but quantities are tiny.  The vintages have changed, but the brands that matter have not.

Are you still focused on business to business transactions exclusively?

Yes. We have no interest in trading with consumers or producers. Our members do this very well. Our job is to facilitate trade among our members, not to put them out of business. If they do well, we do well.

How many members are currently part of the exchange?

We have 420 merchants in 35 countries!

Which countries are the most active?

UK and France. London and Bordeaux is still home to 9 out of 10 of the biggest players in the world. The biggest wine merchants in Europe are also the biggest in China.

Aren’t consumers better off purchasing wines at auction, than through traditional merchants?

Definitely not! Outside of the US and possibly Asia for the time being, auctions are an irrelevance. It is much cheaper and more convenient to trade with a merchant. That is why the merchant market is 10 times larger.

What is your opinion regarding the decision by Chateau Latour to no longer offer their wines for sale as future?

The decision is impossible to fathom. Not because it is bad for the market and the consumer, which it is, but because it makes no sense for the owners. When you can sell your wine for 500 Euros per bottle in a single phone call to a courtier, with minimal distribution or marketing cost, at gross margins of 98% and hold no stock, why would you want to change a thing? It is a high risk, low return strategy.

What wines should consumers looking to invest in?

Well stored older drinking Bordeaux wine represents great value for drinkers and investors relative to recent vintages.

What do you think will happen to the Bordeaux market when Robert Parker retires?

People will pay more attention to the consensus. I think this will be healthy.

How pervasive is the problem of counterfeit wines today?

Thankfully the chateaux are starting to take the problem more seriously. Technology like proof tag is making a big difference! It is not a large problem for us currently. Most of our business is in young wines and the chain is easily tracked back to the producer. But it is important that we all remain vigilant.

How strong is the Asian market place today?

It is very tough particularly in Greater China which includes Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan. These markets are at the heart of the slow-down and there are far too many players there currently. There is going to be a shakeout, which will be painful but necessary.

With that as a starting point, what is your view of the Chinese market today, and for the foreseeable future?

It is an exciting new market for the wine trade. There are early signs of some restocking in China which is positive and didn’t happen last year. We expect a gradual recovery. The market is going to be more sophisticated and discerning as it matures. But the interest in wine is real and enduring.

Where are prices for Bordeaux wine and other collectible wines headed?

The picture is more mixed than the headline numbers suggest. Away from the First Growths, mature and third and fourth tier Bordeaux wine continue doing well. Right Bank wine like Angelus and Pavie, which were just promoted in the recentSt. Emilion Classification are at all-time highs. Champagne, Burgundy and Rhone have been relatively untouched. High quality wines at sensible prices will do well.

With wines being purchased solely for investment, obviously excessive shipping is a costly endeavour. What are your plans to lessen the need for movement in transactions?

That is a very big question! The reason stock moves around is that legally, an entity can only prove ownership of a wine if it is actually in their warehouse account.

How would Liv-ex change that?

Our idea is to build and manage a central depository of ownership which would basically be a database of owners above a certified network of warehouses that all perform to the same standards with regards to storage conditions, verification process etc. In this scenario, transferring ownership would become a simple book entry or database transfer. Actual goods would not need to be moved unless physical delivery was a necessity.

On the surface, for investors that do not plan on drinking the wine, not paying for shipping and maintaining provenance seems like a good idea for all parties involved.

If you were to build a supply chain for fine wine today, you wouldn’t build the current one. There is too much movement within the current system. The vast majority of trade is in wines that are too young to drink. 90% of Liv-ex’s trade is in the last 10 vintages. As a result, most of our business is transacted between one storage account and another, even if it is travelling half way around the world in the process.

What are your plans for the future at Liv-ex?

We will continue to obsess about making trading wine more efficient, transparent and safe for the benefit of wine lovers everywhere.

What does the future hold for wine investing?

Wine and speculation in wine have been strange bedfellows since the beginning of time. As long as there is wine, there will be speculation. Both have a great future.

Liv-ex interview with Jean-Marc Quarin

 

Jean-Marc Quarin is an independent wine critic living in Bordeaux. Below he answers questions from Liv-ex on the 2012 vintage, En Primeur and the Bordeaux market, and his role as a wine critic. His tasting scores for individual wines can now be found on both Liv-ex and Cellar Watch. 

On Monday we will be publishing a report by Jean-Marc on back vintages of Margaux and Haut-Brion, in addition to offering a discount on membership to his website, www.quarin.com. 

Wine and tasting

You were born in Chateauneuf du Pape and you have a family connection with the Languedoc. So what drew you to Bordeaux rather than the wines of the South?

I was born in the Chateauneuf du Pape Appellation and my grandparents used to be winegrowers in Carcassonne. When my parents moved to Arcachon I studied at the University of Bordeaux. In 1980 I started to learn about the wines of Bordeaux for pleasure, and then I obtained a degree in wine tasting at the Institute of Oenology in Bordeaux.

Comparing 2009 and 2010 will probably engage wine lovers for decades. How do you view the two vintages?

In November 2009 I published an article on the 2009 vintage, and called it “a treat impossible not to swallow”. That’s still true. During the harvest I spent 45 days in the vineyards and in the cellars; the special harvest report I wrote is still available on my website.

The 2009s display a fascinating velvet structure. 2010 is a cooler vintage, with lower PH resulting in a firmer structure. Although full-bodied, the 2010 wines are not as round as the 2009s. The low PH in the 2010s gives a fresh aroma to the finish.

There is currently more pleasure to be had in the 2009s – this will come later for the 2010s. Both are superb vintages but have different styles. Consumers who are used to new world wines and look for instant gratification will like the 2009s better. But there will be classical Bordeaux consumers who can foresee the potential of the 2010s, and they will be ready to wait for them.

You described the 1982s as “disappointing” today – could you elaborate further?

Last October I was disappointed by numerous 1982s. Several wines were diluted with unripe and angular tannins and an acidic finish. Techniques [in winemaking] have very much improved since the 1982 vintage. Improvements in the vineyards and cellars have a direct impact on the quality of the wine. And even wines that were once given high scores can see a decrease in quality over time because our reference on what is high quality has changed. The market and the customers do not always understand this.  

Is there one vintage you feel that you, or others, underrated?

I originally underrated the 2001 vintage. But I have appreciated it since then! 

In terms of buying a back vintage, where should collectors put their money? Where is the value and quality?

I would suggest magnums (or even bigger bottles) of the 2001.

If you could pick one producer that has impressed you in recent years, who would it be? 

Denis Durantou at L’Eglise Clinet.

Which of the Firsts do you think is doing the best job?

In my opinion there are two: Château Margaux and Château Latour.

Outside of Bordeaux, what other wines are exciting you?

Many other wines excite me: red Burgundy (particularly those of Vosne-Romanée), Rieslings from Germany and the Alsace region, all sweet wines that have come from noble rot, vins de paille and white wines from Jura, and new wines from Lebanon.

 

En Primeur and trading

At what stage in a vintage’s life do you think you can tell its quality? Is En Primeur tasted too early?

You can recognize the potential quality of a vintage (with around 95% accuracy), in December/January following the harvest, after malolactic fermentation has taken place. The En Primeur tastings are not too early. If there were En Primeur sales in December I would encourage people to take the risk of buying wines then, and at a cheaper price, rather than in May.

How representative are tasting samples?

Nobody can be 100% sure. This is the reason why one should taste more than once. As a “long time” professional I do not blindly trust the tastings; I recognize who deals and what is really being done.

Have you managed to taste any of the 2012 wines yet? If so, what do you make of them?

Bordeaux has produced a very heterogeneous vintage. The grapes matured slowly, and if September and October had been sunny the tannins would have been riper. The conditions we had are ones of which the merlot grape takes advantage. Growing the grapes on early, warmer soils would also have helped.

On paper, the two criteria above would put Pomerol wines in first place; but there were exceptions due to directions taken by the properties. Where the yield was low – allowing the grape to successfully mature over a short period of time – there were more chances for the vintage to come out well. Some cabernet francs on the right bank were of very good quality too. But things vary between properties. The press does not currently seem very enthusiastic about the vintage and this may influence consumers.

In Bordeaux there is talk of prices potentially decreasing – this may result in some good bargains for people who want to drink their wines rather than buy it for investment.

What is your view on the current pricing of En Primeur?

Price does not always indicate quality. Some wines are too expensive and others could cost more. In the Guide Quarin des Vins de Bordeaux I point out the outsiders, i.e. wines that go above and beyond what’s expected. Read my comparative tastings between ‘outsiders’ and famous classified growths: outsiders win!

What future do you think En Primeur has?

The status of the primeurs has recently changed. First Growths have stopped referring to the En Primeur price of the previous vintage to calculate the new price, and instead refer to the price of the last vintage distributed, minus 20%. Consumers are victims of the economical “war” between the chateaux and the Place de Bordeaux. The chateaux give higher prices to avoid negociants getting bigger margins. A case in point was the ex-chateaux price of Haut Brion 2005, which was about €100 less than other chateaux. The negoce still re-sold the wine at the same price as the other First Growths, i.e. with more than €100 supplementary margin per bottle.

Futures are of interest when the En Primeur price is lower than the price after the wine has been bottled. 

What do you think of the “Place” and the way it operates as a distribution channel for Bordeaux wines?

Merchants have promoted Bordeaux wines, particularly those from the Medoc, all over the world. The Place establishes a wine’s reputation, which makes the price increase. Merchants glorify the wines they’re selling and ignore those chateaux that do not give them their wines to sell or do not allow them to earn any money. As an “amateur” I very much regret that the merchants have so much influence on what is said about wine. They welcome the international press and critics and take them to the properties whose wines they’re selling. As a result, the properties that have tried to sell their wine on their own have had to return to the Place. And only then do they get mentioned and rated by the press. 

What role does London play and how is the London trade viewed in Bordeaux?

I think Bordeaux needs the English merchants. They are – and have always been – connected to the whole world. 

How healthy is the Bordeaux market at the moment and what does the future hold?

It seems that the wines that have been requested most often over the last few months are those that cost around 35 Euros per bottle. They sell well. There are fewer transactions for those that are more expensive. Everyone complains about price; perhaps the bubble will explode?

 

Wine writing and criticism

What differentiates you from other critics? What is your philosophy and what makes JMQ unique?

I think I am the only critic who has written on a tasting method called “palate over nose”. My purpose was to inform: to enable people to recognize if a young wine will grow to be bad, good or exceptional. I was presented with the Nadine de Rothschild Wine Book Award for this. In addition to a score on the potential of each wine, I give a so-called “pleasure-score”. This enables people to know which wines can be drunk now, if they don’t want to wait for ten years.

I am also the only critic that lives in the region that I am writing about. Living in Bordeaux places me in a strategic position to hear both official and non-official comments. It is the best way to not be naïve. Over 12 years I have tasted the greatest Bordeaux Wines not only at the chateaux but also in private cellars. I am quite proud to have been the first one to write about discrepancies between bottles, which were later confirmed by investigations and identified by scientists too.

I also developed the concept of ‘outsiders’. The aim of this was to draw attention to winegrowers who are unknown but more involved in their work than most, and who produce great wines for wine lovers.

Finally, I am also the only critic who publishes graphs and charts that show how the quality of each growth has evolved since 1994.

Your website is your main communication tool. What is the story behind its establishment?

I gave up the paper edition in 2009 and switched to the website then. The internet is the best way to find and share information now. My Guide is also available for the iPhone and iPad.

Which other critics do you particularly respect?

I respect them all as long as they are independent.

How is Robert Parker viewed in Bordeaux - by both the trade and the other press/commentators?

Some shed bitter tears while others laugh.

How do you remain “independent” when you are so close to the source? Is living in Bordeaux sometimes a hindrance as well as a help?

Being independent is an attitude of mind. It has nothing to do with living close to the source or far from it. Would any critic before me have dared to write the way that I did on Cos d Estournel, or on Ducru Beaucaillou?  Who else would have filmed the hail at Cos d’Estournel in 2011, or filmed Pavie’s vineyard in 2003?

Being so close to the source is a great pleasure for a wine lover and a specialist. From my point of view it’s a necessity.

 

Please visit the Liv-ex blog on Monday to read Jean-Marc Quarin’s special tasting report on back vintages of Margaux and Haut Brion.

Liv-ex interview with Dr Rainer Jung

 

Dr Rainer Jung is a Professor at the research center of the University of Applied Science in Geisenheim, Germany – one of the world’s leading viticulture and oenology institutes. Dr Jung specializes in the sensorial evaluation of wine, prevention of faults in wine and oxygen management. Through several long term trials for the cork industry he has accumulated in-depth knowledge of the impact of storage conditions. Below we discuss optimum storage conditions for wine and what we know (and don’t know) about the science of wine ageing.

 

What factors have a negative impact on wine during storage?

 The most problematic influence is temperature. The Van’t Hoff factor clearly shows that at an increase of 10°C the chemical and enzymatic processes are accelerated two or threefold. We have run trials where we stored the same wine at 15°C and 25°C, and results showed that higher temperatures have a negative impact on the wine – especially the SO2 content.

Light has less of an impact. Nevertheless, there are a few wines that can get damaged by light, and there are important factors to consider such as the colour of the glass, the length of exposure and the type of light. Modern neon lights have a far lower UV light content and are therefore less damaging to the wine.

I think that in most cases the effect of light gets confused with the effect of temperature as they often go hand in hand. When wine is exposed to sunlight for too long it will heat up. We have done several trials on the effect of light on wine in the laboratory, where we exposed wine to light while maintaining a consistent temperature. We’ve come to the conclusion that temperature has a much stronger impact on the wine quality rather than light, unless the wine is very sensitive and within a clear glass bottle.

What is the impact of high and low temperature on wine?

If wine is exposed to heat then its colour will change from yellow to brown. The aroma also changes. Our sensorial trials have shown that the wine loses fruit aroma. In some cases, this can be perceived as positive for young and unripe wines, because they get softer and develop mature aromas. After a while these develop into intense ageing notes that are less pleasant.

We have not found any reasons to think that low temperatures have a negative impact on wine. There is little evidence to suggest that there is a significant impact on wine if it is stored at 10°C or 7°C, but it would be interesting to see whether this could increase shelf life.

Does the ability of wine to take up more oxygen at much lower temperatures cause problems when it subsequently gets heated up?

It does, but how the wine reacts to oxygen depends very much on the way it has been treated in the winery. Wines that have been exposed to oxygen during the vinification process will be much more stable than reductively made wines. When talking about these topics it is very important to remember that wines vary significantly in their ability to age.

Are fast and strong changes to a wine’s environment more damaging than long term changes of temperature?

We have not done any trials on this but it would be interesting investigate whether a wine that gets exposed to 60°C for two weeks shows the same changes as a wine that is stored at 30°C for four weeks.

Physical damage on bottled wines is a different question. If a wine gets exposed to excessive heat it expands. It might then press out the cork and wine would leak out of the bottle. When it gets cooled down a vacuum develops and sucks the wine out of the cork and into the bottle. Further oxygen will come into the bottle, changing temperatures, and will create a different pressure (a “pumping” effect). This will generally have a negative impact on wine quality.

Bottles which have lost wine will also have a larger head space which might lead to faster oxidation, but this very much depends on the wine’s stability and its ability to cope with oxygen.

Humidity is often discussed when one talks about wine storage conditions: what is its impact?

This topic is frequently discussed with regards to keeping the cork moist, but high humidity from the outside is not required as the cork is moisturized by the wine inside the bottle. Even keeping bottles upright does not reduce the humidity of the cork too much. The humidity of corks in horizontally stored bottles is higher, but sometimes too high, and leakage can occur – this does not happen in vertically stored bottles. The cork’s elasticity is maintained by the wine from the inside and (when the wine is stored vertically) by the position of bottles.

High levels of humidity can damage the wine’s packaging. It can lead to the development of mould below the capsule, on the labels and on cartons. Once humidity is significantly higher than 60% the risk of damage to the packaging is increased.

What happens to wine as it ages?

The aromatic composition of the wine changes: fruity esters are reduced as other flavours develop. The SO2 content is reduced. In particular, the amount of free SO2 [the SO2 that actively reverses oxidation processes] gets less and less. This means that the wine is more susceptible to oxidation. It changes the aroma from fruity to caramel-like, then on to Sherry and a bread-like aroma.

The colour also changes. In red wines sedimentation occurs because molecules become too big and precipitate in the bottle.

Which wines are more likely to change in quality?

During our trials with several closure companies we have made the observation that Riesling is particularly robust during maturation! In long-term trials Riesling showed very good ageing ability. Sauvignon Blanc, on the other hand, is less robust. When it comes to red wines, it is those with higher concentration and more tannins that are robust and have an ability to retain their quality for longer.

In your opinion, what are the ideal storage conditions for wine?

In order to establish an optimum it is important to consider energy and environment: you don’t need to cool wines more than necessary to maintain their quality. In the experience of the research institute in Geisenheim, a temperature between 15 and 18°C and a humidity level of 60% can be an ideal compromise between storage quality and energy input. These are the conditions in which we store wine at the institute.

What are your experiences with the quality of storage and transport conditions in the wine trade?

We do come across issues when we do trials for claims, especially when it comes to sea freight transports without temperature-controlled conditions and when the wines aren’t kept under deck. In those cases corks have been pushed out or the wine has been negatively affected due to the wrong handling.

In general, my experience in the wine trade is rather positive. It seems to me that wine merchants make sure that conditions are adequate.

Why do you think are there so many misunderstandings when it comes to this topic?

You can see articles being written about this topic without any scientific background. A topic such as vibration is being discussed intensely. You can find many who say that it can negatively affect the wine but I am not aware that this has actually ever been scientifically researched. It’s not only amateurs that make this mistake: scientists sometimes tend to accept certain statements without second guessing them and this can obviously lead to confusion.

As a final question: Do you think that the 2012 vintage will be any good in Germany?

There are good but not excessive yields and the grapes look healthy. The next weeks will be crucial as winemakers will soon have to stop spraying fungicides. If it gets humid now we might be in trouble. For the moment it looks very good and the dryness and hot weather in Germany helps to get a good and healthy ripening for our grapes.

Liv-ex interview with Jancis Robinson, part 2

 

On Friday we published the first part of Liv-ex's interview with the UK’s leading wine critic, Jancis Robinson OBE MW. In the second part, shown below, Jancis discusses her career as a critic and journalist, her website and her MW.

 

As a journalist and critic, what’s your philosophy on wine writing – why do you do it?

I suppose I have always been greedy! I was very interested in food, so it was a natural progression to get into wine.  I was first exposed to fine wine at university. It was a Burgundy that lit the flame: a Chambolle Musigny Amoureuses 1959, which I drank in 1970. (At that stage I didn’t realise you were supposed to remember the producer, but I think it must have been a de Vogue.)  I have always loved writing: it comes naturally to me. My first published piece of work was a fashion column on the latest trends for Cumberland News, which I illustrated myself. Then I was restaurant critic for Isis.

I like the personal satisfaction of feeling that I’ve written something well. I like passing on knowledge, and also amusing people; hearing someone laugh if they’re reading my work is a great pleasure. And I don’t positively enjoy giving scores to wine but I suppose they’re a necessary evil.

You score out of 20, and there aren’t many critics who still do. Have you ever considered switching over to the 100 point scale?

The 20 point scoring system is how I started, and while I’m sure it’s not commercially sensible when everyone else is scoring out of 100, I’m horribly stubborn. The exactness of the 100 point scale puts me off a bit. Most wines that I score fall between 15 and 18, so it’s almost like a star system. I’d find it difficult to get my head round the difference between scoring 91 or 92. If suddenly JancisRobinson.com started to shrivel on the vine and I felt forced to change to the 100 point scale then maybe that would kick me into doing so. There’s no impetus at the moment.

One of the most notable things about your website is that you re-rate wines regularly and that there’s variance in your score.  

Different bottles are different, we all know that.  I’m sure that it’s frustrating for people to see eight different scores for the same wine but I believe that reflects reality. Wines go through phases. You can tell I never go back to check and wonder whether I ought to be giving a wine a higher score. The downside of my system is that it allows any merchant to pick the top score and only use that in their promotions. But my site is for me and the readers, and certainly not for the merchants.

The fine wine trade tend to use your scores when selling wines more often than your notes. Sometimes your scores are positive but your notes appear less so – what are your thoughts on that? 

I don’t try to achieve that, it just comes out. I never go back and amplify them, I write them as I taste. I suppose that sometimes the greatness of wine is not apparent as you start to taste and then you realise it towards the end, which is why mine sometimes end ‘bravo!’ as the full impact hits. I’m not very gushing, but when any wine does get an enthusiastic note from me it’s genuine. I also tend to concentrate more on structure than flavours, especially in young wines.

Could you talk us through how the website was first set up. What was the impetus?

I have never had a real work plan. Everything that has happened on that front has been in response to an external stimulus. In December 2000 the whole online thing was going mad and I had a succession of people knocking on my door telling me I had to have a website. I eventually decided to go into partnership with one of them and was planning to set up JancisRobinson.com with him. I had a book coming out that autumn so I wanted to plug the website on the jacket. Come August I realised that he wasn’t being straight with me so I couldn’t do business with him. The problem was that all these books had been printed touting www.jancisrobinson.com, so it had to exist. In the end I went to our techie advisor and he built a very primitive site. After a while I realised how much I liked it, but I was spending so much time on it that I knew I couldn’t afford to do it for nothing.  At the end of 2001 we launched a subscription part, Purple Pages. We weren’t sure if it would be a success, but it was up for half an hour when it shouldn’t have been, and to our amazement we got three subscriptions, one from Brazil. The website’s been a huge hit. I’m particularly grateful to the people who stuck with it from the beginning, when it was a pale shadow of its current self. Searching the site used to be a nightmare, for example. But I’m very proud of it now.

Why do you think you were you able to make a pay-for website a success when so many other failed?

I just don’t know. I suppose it couldn’t be faulted for its independence and its occasional scurrilous aspect, as well as the huge amount of work we all put into it. My publishers probably think it is a distraction, but I love the community element and being close to the readers. The forum keeps me well-informed too.  And a good third of the articles are free.

A big motivation for starting it was that I was tasting so much great wine and making stacks of notes that couldn’t be used in a restricted space like a newspaper column. It’s given me something useful to do with them and a reason to taste.

What are you most proud of – your MW (Master of Wine) or your OBE?

The MW took a lot more effort! The OBE was a complete surprise:  I haven’t a clue who proposed me for it. I suppose I’m prouder of the MW because it is much, much harder work, and somewhat rarer. I was the first non-trade person to get an MW and the first wine writer. At that stage I thought it was normal that any wine writer attempting the MW would be able to pass, and it was only after I saw a few attempting and failing that I re-evaluated it and realised what an achievement it had been.  

About 40% of MWs are female, and in the commercial wine sector the gender split is relatively equal. Fine Wine seems much more male dominated, however.  Why do you think this is?

The fine wine sector is very bloke-ish, with much of the discourse driven by numbers, competition and testosterone. It’s an adjunct in many ways to the financial world, I suppose.

You’d think that if any website was going to have a higher than average proportion of women readers it would be mine, but it was 80% male last time I looked. I hope that will change. I’m rather heartened by developments in the US where there seems to be more energy and enthusiasm about wine among young people. There seems to be a higher proportion of women ‘making it’ in wine: there are a lot of female sommeliers and sales reps.

And what’s your next project?

My next big book, Wine Grapes, is out this autumn. It’s with Julia Harding MW and José Vouillamoz. José is a Swiss botanist who did a lot of work with Carol Meredith on DNA identification of grape vines in California, and has made quite a lot of discoveries himself.

The book is essentially a survey of all the vine varieties we could find that are making wine commercially, which is just under 1400, and how they’re related. There’s a lot of original information in it that has come directly from the DNA studies.

All over the world there is a great trend towards discovering and preserving local varieties, and arguably there are more interesting white wine grapes than red. Hopefully this will help to inject more dynamism and interest into the white wine scene. Not all of them will last for the decades, but I do believe that wine is for drinking. 

 

Liv-ex interview with Jancis Robinson, part 1

Jancis Robinson OBE MW, the UK’s leading wine critic, recently sat down for a chat with Liv-ex. The first half of the interview is below, and focuses on her thoughts on Bordeaux and the en primeur market. In the second half of the interview, which will be published on Monday, she discusses her career as a critic and journalist, the development of her website, and her MW.

 

You didn’t go to Bordeaux this year because of your husband’s illness – did you miss it?

I did miss not having a personal experience of the liquids in situ and the intellectual challenge of getting to grips with the vintage. But it would be hypocritical of me to say that I was absolutely distraught, as only last year I had taken a rather public stand querying the wisdom of the whole primeur tasting business. I am an idealist in all sorts of ways, one of which is that I’d love the Bordeaux trade to take a two year break – which I know is never going to happen – and not show, price, or release the wines until they are in bottle. That would be my idea of heaven.

[Nick Lander, Jancis’ husband and the food critic for the Financial Times is now close to a full recovery.]

You talked last year about issues with tasting samples and the times of tasting. Are those the key issues for you, or is it the jamboree that surrounds the campaign itself?

I can see that for the merchants it’s a wonderful social occasion. It’s fun and they have lovely dinners with the top chateaux owners and nice old wines. I’m always too exhausted to do things like that. Unfortunately, rather anodyne and low-standard room service is generally a poor substitute. But at least I am fit and ready to go on the following morning. I suppose if you are going around in a big pack you can take it in turns to have a hangover, which you can’t if you are a lone taster.

I do feel uncomfortable about the relationship between those of us that go and score the new vintage and the market. It crystallises things for me for when someone gets upset that you miss a sample and don’t manage to taste something. But it shouldn’t be our duty to taste and provide a sales aid. It’s not our role as journalists to sell wine for merchants or proprietors. Our role is to comment on wine for the sake of consumers.

I enjoy tweeting myself, but I do think Twitter has become something of a malign influence during the en primeur season, when you have some merchants tweeting almost before they have spat out the mouthful.

And on the question of cask samples?

I do see variation between samples, we all do. Although I’m not saying at all that this is deliberate. I usually go and taste at the official UGC tastings for the press, which I absolutely love. They are very quiet, very calm and we can do them at our own pace, seated and blind – although not everyone chooses to do them blind. It is really assessing wine in ideal conditions. I am sad that every year there are slightly fewer proprietors prepared to show their wines in that arena. On the other hand I have come across samples that are tired at those events. I suppose it is up to the producers to make sure that they get the right samples to the right places at the right time.

You probably write more about Bordeaux than any other region, but you seem to have something of a love-hate relationship with the region. Is that fair comment?

There are some people in Bordeaux that I have grown to absolutely love – that probably isn’t too much of an overstatement. I have been going there for years, since 1976, but as someone who relishes frankness, I do find Bordeaux a very frustrating region. I find the level of dissimulation disconcerting. With the glorious exception of Anthony Barton, it is so difficult to get a straightforward answer to a straightforward question. There’s all this playing of cards close to your chests and never letting on how much you will be asking for your wine. That is the frustrating thing for me. It’s so time wasting, as we have seen campaign after campaign.

And what do you love about it?

The wine, when it’s fully mature, is unparalleled. It reaches greater subtlety and nuance than any of its peers outside of the region.  But there is no shortage of champions for red Bordeaux – it certainly doesn’t need me. It’s an overdog and I tend to support the underdog. That’s maybe why I particularly love sweet white Bordeaux and act as a bit of flag waver for it. I feel so sorry for the producers, as it is such an expensive thing to produce. It’s bizarre, some of the merchants and brokers who take red Bordeaux so seriously haven’t been to Sauternes for years. And yet, Sauternes is a unique gift to the world, whereas so many producers around the world are making vaguely the same sort of thing as the reds.

Latour has recently announced 2011 will be the last vintage that will be released as an en primeur. What is your opinion on this initiative?

Latour has been moving towards this point slowly but surely for years now. It seems that Frédéric Engerer, who has never really run with the Bordeaux pack, is determined for Latour to be successful as an international luxury brand.  It will be fascinating to see how prices are set for mature vintages straight from the Château and to see how much of a premium is demanded for the irreproachability of provenance. It also isn’t clear how the wines will be presented to journalists. It seems unlikely that the smart new tasting room will be mothballed! So with one or two caveats regarding how the wines are actually brought to market, I for one would love to see more Bordeaux producers following Latour's lead. I would love it if we would all only judge the wines only once they were finally blended, aged and in bottle. 

What would you advise a friend who was looking to build a Bordeaux cellar to buy?

I would advise them to fill their boots with 2009s from relatively inexpensive producers at the Cru Bourgeois, less fashionable Crus Classés and lesser Right Bank level. The vintage was just so good, right down the ladder. And they are underpriced. All of the attention is going to the top players. They are not difficult to understand, particularly for someone new to it, as you don’t have to battle though a wall of tannins or a veil of acidity. They have masses of lovely fruit and yet they have enough freshness to be in the Bordeaux mould. I suspect there will also be a lot of good 2010s as well, although they may be a little bit more difficult for a neophyte to understand.

If they wanted to get to grips with what more mature Bordeaux taste like, I would advise them to skip out and get as good quality 2001s as they could afford. They are just looking better and better and the gap between the 2001s and 2002s is widening.

Is there anyone that you particularly enjoy visiting?

Denis Durantou is always impish and agreeably unpredictable and I have a soft spot for the Guinaudeaus at Lafleur. It always appears to be sunny when I go to Pomerol, which helps. It is fun to go and visit the characters. There are so many strong characters, even if they are not always full and frank! It’s lovely too, to see the next generation emerge. Such as the young Berrouet [Olivier] after seeing his father [Jean-Claude] for so long [at Petrus], Pauline Vauthier and the like. And around the world bump into young Pontallier [of Margaux]. It’s a huge compliment to wine that the next generation is going into it. It’s only a generation and a half ago that wine was considered a sub-standard activity, as I know myself.  When I graduated, I didn’t dare go into wine immediately because I thought all my friends would think it a waste of my education [Maths and Philosophy at Oxford].

Moving away from Bordeaux – what is your relationship with Burgundy?

I love going to Burgundy. You have so much more direct access and it is a more beautiful region, and more obviously historic. You don’t have those long drives up the Medoc at the beginning and end of every day. It is more intellectually challenging with so many wines in every cellar and much more variation between producers.

And your views on recent Burgundy vintages?

I haven’t tasted the 2011s yet. Burgundy tends to hit the heart more than the head and people tend to take a strong position on Burgundian vintages, which is probably a mistake. I think it was wrong to dismiss the 2009s as being simple, big, fruity things. There are some lovely wines there and I think they will probably last very well. I have found some excellent 2010s and the 2008s are doing something of a dance with us. They didn’t look very good, then they came round for us and now they are retreating again. I have a soft spot for the softer vintages of Burgundy that are never going to be great but are going to provide early flattering pleasure and I think the 2007s provide that.

I also love the Rhone; I usually go there towards the end of the year – the time when the difference in weather between Chateauneuf and London is particularly marked. The biggest revelation for me recently was the Northern Rhone 2010s, which were absolutely stunning. I think the 2009s are also better in the North than the South.  But there is not that much wine to go round.

I am also very happy to see the revitalisation of St Joseph, there is more and more serious St Jospeh being produced.

Are you more of a northern Rhone person then?

Not necessarily, as I am a huge fan of the value to be had in the lesser southern Rhone.  I suppose I am more of a drinkers’ writer than an investors’ writer and I am always looking for value. And by that I don’t mean the cheap stuff. I look for something which tastes like real wine but doesn’t carry investment prices. And France is pretty good at that.

What are your predictions for the fine wine sector over the next five years? What will be the major trends?

I rather hope there will be a greater appreciation of fine white wines. You know that I’m an underdog supporter. I’m sad that red wine takes up such a high proportion of column inches. In terms of actual drinking, white wine has just as much to offer and possibly with more variety.

And clearly the pendulum that swings between heft and nuance is coming back from heft: we’re seeing a much wider appreciation of subtlety and freshness. Acidity is no longer seen as a bug-bear but as a refreshing necessity. What I like most at the moment is the fact that the consumer has never been more powerful. I approve of that. I have said my whole working life that I do not want to dictate. I want to inform, educate and amuse the consumer and give them the power to make up their own minds, and I think that’s happening more and more.

 

Please visit the blog on Monday to read part 2 of our interview with Jancis, in which she discusses her career as a critic and journalist, the development of her website, and her MW.

Liv-ex interview with Joe Roseman, author of SWAG

 

Back in September 2011 we ran a post on the Liv-ex blog about SWAG (Silver, Wine, Art and Gold), a new grouping of physical assets.  The economist, analyst and writer behind this acronynm, Joe Roseman, has recently had a book on the subject published. We caught up with him to discuss the ideas behind SWAG: Alternative Investments for the Coming Decade (Grosvenor House Publishing Limited, May 2012) and the role that wine plays in a financial portfolio. You can learn more about SWAG and its author - and also purchase the book - at www.swaginvestor.com.

Q: What is the basic argument behind the book?

A: The principles behind the book are quite simple. Certain assets have a very similar DNA. They are physical in nature. The supply of the asset is relatively fixed and scarce. SWAG assets also tend to have the ability to last: Lafite and other First Growths will often last 50-100 years. These types of assets tend to perform very well in a financial era where money printing is rife: they provide portfolio protection in a way that traditional financial assets do not. Equities can go bust and bonds can default, but a bottle of Lafite will always be a bottle of Lafite. An ounce of gold will always be an ounce of gold.

Q: Your book talks a lot about financial repression. Can you explain this?

A:  Financial repression is a description of a period where governments try to keep interest rates below inflation. It is a way of transferring wealth from savers to borrowers. In this type of world, the saver gets punished by holding cash. The biggest borrower, of course, is the government and they need to find ways of becoming more solvent. Punishing the saver is what financial repression does. My book discusses this process and how savers can act to avoid it.

Q: So, SWAG assets act as a store of value?

Yes. Think of it like this: a hundred years ago, an ounce of gold bought about 15 barrels of oil. Today, it buys around the same. Gold has held its value as a means of purchasing power. A hundred years ago, one dollar bought about two barrels of oil, but today it buys a few mugs of oil. As a paper currency, the dollar has lost around 99% of its purchasing power. Why has that happened? The answer is simple. A hundred years ago the money supply was about $10 billion, whereas today it is about $10 trillion. Each dollar buys substantially less. What does this mean for wine prices? Well, as more and more money gets printed, the price of wine will just keep being driven higher as the money liquidity ends up in the best-looking assets.

Q: Why do you think wine has not gained wider acceptance as an asset class?

A: Wine suffers as an asset class because it is not as readily quantifiable as many typical financial assets. An equity or a bond has an income stream and today’s financial analysts have been educated in such a way that this is seen as a crucial component to valuation. So many financial analysts struggle to value assets like SWAG because it does not have an income stream. The financial pages are littered with examples of equities with income streams that analysts have badly misjudged: Enron, WorldCom, Lehman Brothers, Washington Mutual. Income streams don’t really help analysts see those bombshells coming yet they feel more comfortable trying to predict such assets. That seems crazy to me.

Q: Why do you think wine has a role to play in a financial portfolio?

A: Any portfolio requires a balance of assets. In an ideal world, you want some assets to do well when other assets are suffering so that the portfolio, overall, has less volatility. If a portfolio contained just US and UK equities, then one could expect them to be highly correlated. However, if one also included US bonds in that portfolio, then the volatility would likely fall. The ideal world is one where the addition of a new asset causes the overall return of the portfolio to rise (or stay the same) but at the same time reduces the volatility. Historically, fine wine has managed to do that. Academic research shows that fine wine has a low correlation with traditional financial assets and it is on this angle that it merits attention as part of a portfolio.

Q: The last year has not seen wine act as a good hedge against falling equity markets. Is it possible that the historical relationship has broken down?

A: No asset goes up in a straight line. It is also true that the relationship between assets is rarely linear. However, the academic research was based on almost 15 years of data and that gives some confidence that over time the diversification benefits of wine will work through. Having seen stunning returns on wine amidst the 2009 and 2010 vintages, it is entirely plausible that the correction that has been seen in fine wine over the last year has more to do with a wine market correction than anything to do with equities. Maybe it is just the case that after two or so years of sharp price rises, wine needed to pause – as any asset in a bull trend does.

Q: What factors going forward do you see as key drivers for wine prices?

A: This is a crucial question. Money supply printing and quantitative easing are now very evident components of economic policy. As the need for more and more money printing develops, this will propel SWAG-style assets higher in price, just as it has done for the last decade or more. Yet with wine there are also other factors at play. Firstly, the very best wines are highly restricted on supply. Indeed, as the focus on quality becomes more and more intense, one could argue that the supply curve for the very best wines is almost perfectly inelastic. Secondly, demand is rising constantly. My book goes into great detail on the growth of new demand from the emerging bloc, and this will be a key factor going forward.

Q: What other developments do you think will evolve?

A: I think wine critics have a role to play in the field of wine. Of course they do. But that role is as wine critics and not as wine investment advisers. Rather than look at wine critics for their views on investment, the future will likely see more quantitative assessment of wine as an asset class. I highlight some academic research in my book. There is very recent academic research from the University of East Anglia that examines diversification across different types of wine. This type of research can only be helpful when it comes to developing wine as an asset class. Wine funds are also moving down the same path, attempting to add some quantitative rigour to their wine investment recommendations. I expect to see more and more of this. Indeed, Liv-ex has perhaps been a pioneer in trying to make wine more quantitatively accessible. This is the way forward for wine investment.

Q: Are there any specific wines that you think offer good investment potential at the moment?

A: Again, I think this is an interesting question. Equity analysts will definitely promote specific equities and will aim to trade such opinions. I don’t think wine is that type of asset. I think it is an asset that needs to be held for the medium term and as a part of a well-constructed portfolio. Clearly, every now and then, specific wines get some momentum behind them and can produce very strong short-term returns. That is not what SWAG investing is about. My view is that the very high quality wines will likely prove to have the best risk/reward returns. The University of East Anglia research confirms the idea that different regions and styles will improve the balance of the wine portfolio, and I tend to agree with that. The simple answer is that a medium term focus on quality is the most likely winner.

 

Liv-ex interview with James Suckling, part two: Behind the scenes

Last week we published the first part of our interview with acclaimed wine critic James Suckling. The second part, shown below, focuses on James' path to wine journalism, his reasons for leaving the Wine Spectator and his relationship with Robert Parker. 

You have lived in Italy how for 14 years 1998. What is it about Italy that attracts you?

I moved there in 1998 after spending 12 years in London. 

I just love the Italian culture, the people and the wines. It is just a great place to live. I moved to Italy in 1998, after 12 years of living in London, as I saw in barrel how amazing some of the 1997s were. I understood that if they reduced yields they could make fabulous wine. Spring frosts reduced yields that year and the resulting wines were just fabulous. I think producers realised, and I realised, that if yields were reduced on a regular basis then they could make fabulous wines. I wanted to be in on that renaissance. It has been an amazing ride to be there and I think there is more to come. 

Does it frustrate you that Italian wines still don’t get the same attention from the trade and press as the major French regions? 

Maybe slightly. But you have to remember that the Italians have been making great wine for a lot less time than the Bordelais.You may find a few wines from the ‘50s and ‘60s from producers like Conterno or Biondi Santi, but those are the exceptions. Modern wine making – and the idea of “great wines” – is a much more recent phenomenon in Italy. Bordeaux has been doing it for hundreds of years.

I think in time Italy will continue its path to great wines. And I’m convinced that Italy will be the next big thing in Asia. 

You’ve talked about your love for Pomerol and Tuscany. How do you keep your objectivity when tasting?

By definition, wine criticism tends to be fairly subjective. You’re giving a personal opinion about wine. It’s not like being a news journalist, which is where I started many years back. Having said that, I wouldn’t say that I give higher scores to Pomerols over Pauillacs. I really try and look at each individual wine on its own merits. You just have to try and be as professional as possible.

You were at the Wine Spectator for almost 30 years; how did you get started there?

I started back in 1981 when I was 22. My father was a big wine collector and I was working as a daily journalist for the Wisconsin State Journal. There were no jobs on a daily newspaper at the time so I answered an advert to become a staff writer on the Wine Spectator, which at the time had just 800 subscribers. I started out in a garage in San Diego with the team there. 

Why did you leave?

I had just worked so long there. And I had some other things that I wanted to try, like making documentary movies. I also wanted to spend more time in Asia and have the freedom to pursue different things and try being an entrepreneur. I was 51 years old and I figured that it was either now or never. But I spent most of my adult life there and I am still friends with many of the people on the magazine. 

How have you found the experience of going solo?

It’s a lot more work – I can say that much! But it has been very exciting and I’ve learnt an awful lot. As anyone who is an entrepreneur knows, you have to constantly adjust to the situation. I suppose the best thing has been being able to spend so much time in Asia. I’m there for around half the year now, as my girlfriend lives in Hong Kong. There’s this huge potential in Asia and that’s where I am going to be focusing my efforts over the next 10 years.

What are your thoughts on the current state of wine criticism and journalism? 

Wine writing and criticism has been in a bit of flux. There are so many blogs out there now and there is so much information available on the internet. But I think that in the end, people are realising the value of reliable information and proper critical writing. To be a good wine critic, I think you need experience, knowledge and a deep education in the subject. Obviously, someone working in their twenties writing a blog can’t have the same experience as someone like me or Jancis [Robinson] or Tim [Atkin] or Robert Parker. I think criticism is here to stay, but it is becoming far more specialised. There are so many excellent wines in the world now that is it impossible to keep on top of all of them. People talk about score inflation – how could you give 10 100 points in 2009? There are so many excellent wines out there. I’m sure that if you looked at it statistically, scores would have risen since the ‘80s. But it’s not because I am being more generous; it’s that the quality has improved so much.

You and Robert Parker are arguably the most influential US critics when it comes to Bordeaux. What is your relationship like? Are you friends or rivals?

I have always been competitive – when I was growing up I played tennis semi-professionally – but I am super friendly with Bob. I am just sorry that there is not more communication between the different US-based wine writers. I am probably better connected with UK wine writers. I’ve always been good friends with Tim [Atkin MW] and Jancis [Robinson MW]. 

What’s the major difference between US and UK writers? 

I think it’s fair to say that the two voices that move the market most are US-based. I’ve often thought about why this might be. Maybe it’s because US writers are more focused? The UK wine writers tended to be more generalised and not just focused on fine wine. A lot of them write for daily newspapers and they have to write about inexpensive wines sold in supermarkets, while we US-based writers can chose to be a little bit more upmarket and focus on Bordeaux, Burgundy, top Italian – whatever. 

Although it’s fair to say that the UK wine writing scene is much more jovial than in the US. There are things like the Circle of Wine Writers that bring people together and in the ‘80s eight of us formed a group called the Octagon, with Tim, Jancis and Oz, etc. It was really fun and we all used to get together and taste. I miss those times. It’s a bit more lonesome for me these days!

What sets you apart from Parker? What do you do differently?

I think my palate is different from Bob’s. I can appreciate big powerful wines, but at the same time I look for balance and elegance. In Bordeaux this is maybe less apparent, although I do tend to go for more racy styles like VCC, Cheval Blanc or Haut Brion. But in California you can really see the difference. Robert likes some wines that I find difficult to enjoy. 

So what do you drink at home?

I like to drink anything and everything that starts with a ‘B’ – Bordeaux, Burgundy, Brunello and Barolo. 

And nothing from the US? 

Not much to be honest!

Your daughter has had a lot of success recently with her music career. You must be very proud.

She’s a real pro – just amazing. She’s already more famous than me. I’m sure that from now on I will be known simply as Isobel Suckling’s father.  

Liv-ex interview with James Suckling, part one: Bordeaux 2011

James Suckling was in London last week and set aside some time to speak to us. The first part of our interview with him is shown below and focuses on the 2011 vintage and his experiences of tasting En Primeur. In part two, which will be published early next week, James discusses his favourite regions, his departure from the Wine Spectator and his relationship with Robert Parker.

You recently returned from Bordeaux, where you tasted the 2011 vintage. What were your overall impressions?

It is a very good to excellent vintage. The top estates, through their viticultural and winemaking expertise, can make excellent wines in challenging vintages nowadays. 2011 was difficult due to the growing season: the spring was very hot and dry, the summer was quite cool and not that sunny, and then you had an Indian summer. Some areas were affected by hail in early September and then you had an onslaught of botrytis as well. But the Bordelais are the best viticulturalists in the world and they know how to handle these difficult decisions. In the end, the top estates, and even some smaller estates, made some very good wines.

What are the defining characteristics of the vintage?

Denis Durantou of Eglise Clinet explained it to me best. If you look at it analytically, the wines tend to have the same amount of tannin as in 2010 and the same acidity level, but with around one degree less alcohol. So what you have are skinny, lanky wines that are not that big and voluptuous. I suppose you could describe them as slightly emaciated models.

What is good about the vintage?

The vintage harks back to the classic style of Bordeaux. It has a slight austerity and firmness with a nice perfume.

I have been tasting from barrel since 1982 and I was recently trying to remember what the wines remind me of. Perhaps 1986, with which it shares a tannic structure, although there aren’t the same highlights in 2011 that we saw in 1986, such as Mouton or Las Cases. Or maybe even 1975, but more modern, with riper tannins. Qualitatively, I think we are at the same level as 2004 (which I feel is underrated) or 2001. But stylistically, I would have to say 1986 or 1975.

I would say it is better than 1996, which is overrated apart from the very top Medoc wines, and it is better than 2008, which has a really high acidity that I don’t get on with.

Which wines and regions excelled?

Those producers that worked on picking the best possible grapes and then didn’t work them too much, with shorter macerations and lower extraction of tannin, tended to excel. Argilo-calcaire [clay and limestone] soils were also an advantage as they retained the moisture better during the drought. I also tended to like the wines high in Cabernet Franc, such as VCC, Ausone, Figeac and Cheval Blanc. Overall, I think the vintage has favoured the Right Bank.

Over on the Left Bank, Latour was fantastic, one of the wines of the vintage, along with Palmer and Mouton. And one that people should really consider is Pichon Lalande. It reminds me of their wines from the 1980s, such as the 1983 or 1986. Since Roederer bought it, Pichon has really got back to its best. They’ve cut out some of the Petit Verdot in the blend and that has really helped.

And don’t forget the whites. They are phenomenal and will be up there with classic years such as 2007, 2004 1997 and 1995 – really great with lovely richness and super-lively acidity. The Sauternes are also excellent.

What didn’t you like?

St Estephe was disappointing as many producers were forced to pick early due to the hail. The wines tend to be a bit lean and hollow. And from Margaux I found a lot of skinny and short wines, although Rauzan Segla was good and Palmer was amazing – one of the wines of the vintage.

What was the mood in Bordeaux, particularly around pricing?

Everyone from wine merchants to chateau owners, negociants and courtiers agreed that prices must come down enough to give people the incentive to buy these wines. But I’ve been doing this for 30 years and I’ve heard the same thing for 30 years. The only time they came down in a proper way was for the 2008s, when everyone thought we were in economic Armageddon and had no choice but to slash prices. This time I’m a little bit concerned. I know the top wine producers have very good intentions, but unfortunately it doesn’t always come out in the right way.

The wines need to come out below the price of the least expensive wine on the market. It’s going to be really hard for the very top estates to do that. The First Growths need to be under €300 per bottle and the Seconds at round €80, depending on the chateau. That’s a tough bullet to bite for some producers. But I hope that they do it – they’ve made a lot of money in recent years and now it’s time to provide some incentives to true lovers of Bordeaux. This is a vintage for those that love drinking claret; I don’t think it will be an investment vintage at all.

What do you look for when tasting out of barrel? Is it difficult?

The key thing to remember is that the nose isn’t important at all. I learnt that from Daniel Lawton, one of the great negociants of Bordeaux. The important thing is the texture – the quality of the tannins and how they relate to the acidity and alcohol – and then the finish. Wines with long seamless finishes are really the great wines. It’s not all about power.

It takes a long time before you can taste En Primeur properly. There’s a hierarchy in Bordeaux that helps as you can kind of figure out what should taste good. But to really understand how wines evolve you need a good 10 years of tasting. Bordeaux gets around 4,000 people arriving to taste EP each year, but I’m not sure how many of them really know how to taste properly. It’s not as easy as it seems and it’s a hell of a job.

There are always some doubts over the validity of tasting samples and whether they really represent the finished wine. What’s your opinion?

I find that, in general, they don’t play around with samples too much. If they do it becomes apparent afterwards when the wines are in bottle. What’s really important is the quality of the sample: how fresh it is, the temperature, and how much sulphur they have used. All of those things will change your interpretation. A warmer sample will appear softer and rounder and the alcohol will be more apparent. You also have to consider the air pressure on that day. A high-pressure day tends to show samples better than a low-pressure day.

I tend to like colder samples fresh from the barrel. A couple of times this year I said to the winemaker that I wasn’t very keen on the sample and asked to go into the cellar to taste the wine and all the various components.

When you taste at En Primeur you are just taking a photograph. And just like a good photo, a tasting needs to be properly thought out.

Another issue that keeps being discussed is the time of tasting. Famously, you tend to taste and report earlier than others. What’s your take on that?

I don’t really understand what the issue is. I’ve been tasting for 30 years at the same time [in March] and if other people want to taste early they should do it. A week or two doesn’t really have an impact on the wine and the chateau owners are happy about me coming when I do, so why not? Some of the big tastings during En Primeur week are what the Brits would call a “bun fight”. That’s not the proper way to taste wines. I like to taste calmly and spend time with people. It takes me two weeks to get through all of the wines. A lot of people taste 200 wines in four days. I don’t think it’s possible to do that properly.

Are there any favourite areas that you particularly like tasting in?

I love going to Pomerol. It’s like being in Burgundy, but with the producers paying more attention to detail. I think the wines are just fascinating. You can stand in the vineyards of VCC and you can see Petrus and Conseillante right next door, but they all have their own distinct styles.

You would think that after doing this for so long that I would be pretty jaded, but as soon as I go there, speak to the winemakers and taste some of the wines, I realise why I love this job.

What are your favourite Bordeaux back vintages and how would you rank them?

If I put recent vintages in order of preference then I would start with 2009, followed by 2010, 2005, 1989, 2000 and then 1982. I love drinking the 1982s, but there is such bottle variation and the yields were double what they are now. I remember asking Christian Moueix back in the early ‘80s what he thought of 1982 and he said, “We would have had another 1945 on our hands if the yields had been lower.”

But 2009 really is the vintage of our generation. I have absolutely no doubts. I tasted a number on my recent trip and they are just so beautiful. But from an investment perspective, I wouldn’t go near it. I think prices might go down when the euphoria from my high scores and Robert Parker’s high scores has died down.

And 1990? That seems to be missing from your list.

For me, the 1990s come just after the 1982s. There are some beautiful wines from the vintage, but I think the 1989s are going to be greater wines in the long run as they are that little bit more structured. There are some exceptions, like 1990 Latour, which is just incredible. Also, a lot of the 1990s have a problem with Brettanomyces because they didn’t use enough sulphur during the elevage. Although, you still have to say that they are great wines.

If a friend asked which back vintages to buy, where would you steer them?

I would buy Right Bank and Pessac Leognan wines from 1998 and 2001. They are both great, underrated vintages that provide good value, particularly if you stay clear of the Left Bank. I also like 2004, across the board. I have been buying and drinking a lot of wines from these vintages and they are drinking fantastically at great prices.

Check back on Monday to find out more about James' departure from the Wine Spectator, his path to wine journalism and his relationship with Robert Parker.

Liv-ex interview with Robert Parker, part two: Looking back and moving forward

 

On Friday we published the first part of our recent interview with Robert Parker. The second part of the interview is shown below. Parker talks about the regions and producers that he is excited about, who may take over the Bordeaux beat when he eventually leaves The Wine Advocate, and his views on the Pancho Campo MW affair. 

Is there one vintage you feel that you, or others, underrated? If you were buying a back vintage, where should collectors put their money? Where is the value?

I think there is tremendous sentiment about 2005, which many writers rated slightly better than I did. I was originally worried about the tannin levels in 2005, but the wines are so concentrated I think they will be just fine – they just need a lot of time. 

But there are two vintages I would pick:

Firstly, 2003. It was a bizarre year; there were a lot of failures in Pomerol, St Emilion and the Graves, but when you get into the Medoc you really run into a lot of profound wines, particularly further north in Pauillac, St Estephe and St Julien. I bought a lot of Montrose; I bought Cos; I bought the Leovilles, the Pichons, Latour and Lafite. These are great wines, despite the question marks over the vintage. If you had late-ripening Cabernet Sauvignon and moisture-retentive clay soils you could survive the extreme heat of July and August and benefit from the late August rains. If you look at the dates of the harvest for Latour and Lafite, it was pretty much a normal harvest. The statement that the wines are all overblown does not apply at all to the top wines of the vintage. You do have to be very careful though; the percentage of world-class red wines made in France in 2003 was very small. If you don’t have the right information, you can get burnt badly.

The other vintage I would mention, which I think I underrated, was 2001. It’s a vintage that is just drinking beautifully and if I were a wine consultant I would advise my clients to buy them. 2000 is obviously a greater vintage overall, but the wines are still tannic, vibrant and very young. The 2001s, though, are very close in quality to the 2000s, particularly on the Graves and the Right Bank. And the wines have evolved at a much faster pace – they are very fragrant, very perfumed. They are not blockbusters but they are rich. They are also very reasonably priced and somewhat forgotten. 

Which vertical are you working on now?

I am currently tasting the 1995 and 1996 Bordeaux back vintages. The 1996s are living up to my hopes and the 1995s are still a little stern and austere. We will all be pushing up daisies before they are ready.  

If you could pick one producer that has impressed you in recent years, who would it be?

There are so many. I think, as an appellation, what has happened in Margaux has been remarkable. Palmer and Chateau Margaux have always made great wines, but producers such as d’Issan, Brane Cantenac, Giscours and du Tertre have all improved so dramatically.  When I started it was always one of the most disappointing of the appellations in Bordeaux, but now it’s one of the most exciting. Perhaps Brane Cantenac or Malescot St Exupery would jump out at me as just doing the most fantastic work.

But if I could only pick one wine, then what Alfred Tesseron has done at Pontet Canet really stands out. He took a fabulous terroir, right on the plateau next to Mouton, and has just done everything possible to make First Growth quality wine, which he has been doing. He’s also done a number of contrarian things, like moving to organic and then biodynamic farming, which was unheard of in Bordeaux. 

He’s got a lot of company, though. The visionary Bernard Magret’s wines have jumped in quality significantly. Pape Clement in the mid-70s was undrinkable and now it is one of the great estates. 

Which of the Firsts do you think is doing the best job?

I have a weakness for Latour and Lafite. Latour always has an ethereal complexity and Lafite always has this power and majesty, but they are all on top of their game now. It seems to me that Mouton traditionally trailed them but is now right up there. Margaux is great, more floral and elegant. And then you go south to Haut Brion – one of the most singular wines in Bordeaux. Jean-Philippe Delmas is just doing a fabulous job and he had some big boots to fill [his father’s Jean Delmas]. Whoever did the 1855 classification knew a lot more than they are given credit for.

And what’s exciting you outside of Bordeaux?

One of the most exciting areas for wine in the world is Argentina. The Malbecs coming out of Argentina are thrilling – and at all price levels. Certainly in the US, we can find $15-18 Malbecs that are delicious, ready to drink and consumers love them. And if you want to go up the ladder you can buy a top Catena wine at $75 that competes with any other similarly priced wine in the world. I am also starting to get excited about what Chile is doing with Sauvignon Blanc, Chardonnay and Pinot Noir.

I still think that Spain is very much the sleeping giant of the Mediterranean. It has just unlimited potential. Although they are obviously going through a bad patch with their economy and some of the other problems they have had, such as the scandal involving my former colleague, Jay Miller, and Pancho Campo. 

Talking about The Wine Advocate then, you have obviously expanded the number of tasters, which has had both good and bad outcomes. How is your role going to change in the next few years, and what’s your plan for the team?

I haven’t really slowed down. I still love to travel and enjoy the chase – I’m like a truffle dog trying to find truffles. I love doing Bordeaux – I always have – and the Rhone is a sentimental favourite. But I’m doing more verticals and older horizontals and more miscellaneous tasting with some of the best importers to try and find where their best values are. That gives me a chance to taste from the Loire, Alsace, wherever. 

My role has evolved though. I have to hire and manage people and I’m learning good things and bad things. I’m very proud of the people that we have, but I am still learning the supervisory and communication aspects. You always need to communicate exactly what you want. This is a challenge for me – I take part of the blame for what happened with Pancho Campo and Jay Miller in Spain. We haven’t seen the final investigative report from our lawyers, but at the end of the day, I feel that I did not supervise Jay Miller as effectively as I should have. I should have been more hands-on and more diligent in asking questions as to what he was doing. Nothing was done that was illegal, but there were some things done that were just... I suppose perception is reality.  I should have scrutinised the way he did things a lot more than I did.

Who do you think will replace you as the top Bordeaux critic at The Advocate?

I don’t think you have to worry for at least five years! I obviously have the young Englishman Neal Martin on my team. He is very talented and he gets better every year. But I want him to keep on doing what he is doing – I don’t want to just promise him the job. When that day comes, if it is five years from now or longer, I will probably just open the competition. Neal will probably have an advantage as part of the inside circle, and he is only going to get better – and he just loves wine! This is very important to me.

I remember that Marvin Shanken, the publisher of the Wine Spectator, was asked what he looks for in a wine writer. He said: “I don’t want wine writers. I just want good writers and we can teach them all they need to know about wine.”  My philosophy is the opposite. I want wine lovers, first and foremost, and we can teach them about writing. If you look at people like Neal, Antonio Galloni or Lisa Perrotti-Brown, their interest, passion and curiosity about wine is just 24/7. Those are the kind of people that I want. When my wife accuses me of dreaming about wine, I don’t take it as an insult.

Regarding the release of the Bordeaux Report, there is always some disgruntlement about timings, with some print customers getting it earlier than online. How do you make it fair?

That is the awkward question. We try and make it as fair as possible, so the greatest number of people get The Wine Advocate at the same time. What happened with the last issue was that it was mailed from the local post office and people who got it that morning, five or six hours before the electronic subscribers, faxed and emailed the entire contents around. So we are going to move the electronic release up to 12 noon [from 6pm currently] which should kill that problem. Within the next six months we will also have a pdf capacity. We are going to put out some serious incentives to the print subscribers to go over to electronic and ultimately perhaps kill the whole print edition. Three-quarters of our subscribers are on the internet version now, and the print subscriptions keep going down. But we still have the older generation of subscribers who prefer print, and I think we can probably satisfy their needs with a pdf.